Curse

Cammy · May 22, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

disciplined stance lasts only half as long as frenzied defense and takes 5 seconds longer to recharge though

I guess I just like the duration of frenzied defense since I'm a noob and can't handle pressure XD

Zui · May 22, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Umm, you listed two reasons to bring Frenzied Defense + Protective Spirit, Dazed and Spikes.

Disciplined Stance and Spirit Bond are superior tools for stopping spikes. Disciplined Stance lasts as long as you'll ever need to stop a spike, and has the added bonus of giving you armor. You're also don't absolutly need to have Protective Spirit up 100% of the time to use it and not die. Because of this, it costs you less energy, and you're also less vunrable. Did I mention the recharge doesn't matter, because you honestly shouldn't need the stance on recharge. Spirit Bond is superior to Protective Spirit, I really don't think I need to explain this one to you, just look at the two skills. Protective Spirit sucks in comparison for Team Arenas.

As for Dazed, with Disciplined Stance you have all the time you need to remove it. However, you honestly don't want to depend on self-removing Dazed ever. Bring an off-monk condition removal, such as a Mending Touch, or Draw Conditions, and you'll be really happy about it. Less having to remove blinds, and you don't need to bring a stance just to have a chance at removing Dazed from yourself.

Also, Frenzied Defense does not help you handle pressure. Except in the case your opponents are some of the absolute worst players in the game, and simply train you the entire match. Good players will use the fact you're running a gimped skill bar to their advantage, and either create a window to make you die if their build allows it, or simply go beat on other people, and watch them die because you're running a gimped monk bar.

Basically, Frenzied Defense + Protective Spirit only helps you against absolutly horrible players, and makes you loose against good players. I'd really hope you decide not to run it.

@ Divine, nice green name :O

Patrick Smit · May 22, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Effectively Daze shouldnt work in any organized teamplay.

Cammy, Spiritbond seems expensive, but gives ultimate protection for almost 10 seconds with +20% enchantments. If they still keep bashing u they are just on some kind of mental autopilot, unless they release lots of small packets of damage. a shielding hands or shield of absorption might do better then.

blackbane · May 23, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

some tips that i have...

I prefer to run this bar in TA/RA
ZB Energy management, high heal
Reversal of fortune- your weak infuse health-low heal
Gift of health- medium heal-
Draw Conditions- a weak RC
Mend touch- self heal
Shield of Absorb.//Spirit bond//Shield bash (depends on team in TA, 3 soft targets on your team = shield / bond, 2 melees = shield bash.) Spirit bond on a warrior is useless imo because no one runs backliners because of the melee hate, and the most damage a warrior will take is melee hate, blind surge, spirit damage, and maybe warrior backlining if the team uses communication.
Disciplined Stance - Gives you time to cast/signet with a high chance of not being interrupted.
Purge signet / veil- purge is allround better, but bringing both isnt bad.

Currently I am rank 3 gladiator (128 - 10 win streaks) and rank 4 hero (551 fame)
I don't play very often, but when I do, not loosing, is a great thing...
Monking in RA to me, is twice as hard as monking in TA. Because RA serves the four purposes of glad farming, faction farming, build testing, and having fun, you never know what you are going to go up against. In team arenas, teams are very predictable, and when ever you have to think about what the opposing team is running, most likely it will be unsuccessful. People in TA spend a lot of time thinking of their builds, and they make sure to have counters, defense, and offense. To sum up what I just said, when youre in TA, and you see a necro, you know hes either going to be melee hate, spoil victor, a /rt healer, or he is plain life transfer garbage. In RA it is much harder to predict, thus making it harder to monk.

Keys to good monking.
positioning, putting yourself in a safe place that would cause the other team to overextend to get to you.
Always watch a mesmer while playing, no matter how good of a monk you are, if there is a mesmer on the other team, and he is not being harassed, the monk is going to get shut down.(Unless ofc. he is migraine/ arcane /full bar of interrupts garbage)
Equip yourself for the worst, if you have problems with assasins- bring shield bash, if u have problem with hex pressure, bring veil + purge.
Don't bring prot spirit- if you passed 6th grade math, you know that 10% dmg at a time is garbage. Frenzied defense is a no no, why bring a skill with a negative effect like double damage, when there is so many other skills that give boosts like +24 armor.
Run over 600 health.
Make sure to practice.

Cammy · May 24, 2007, 04:05 AM // 04:05

woot lots of useful stuff here ^_^ Thanks you guys!!

Another question though XD

What runes/insignias do you use in order to have good attributes, decent energy, and still have 600+ health?

Right now I use:

All radiant insignias,
Rune of attunement,
Rune of Recovery,
Rune of minor divine favor,
Rune of Major Protection Prayers,
Rune of Superior Vigor

I have 525 Health and 40 Energy (without focus/+5 weapon)

14 Prot Prayers
11 Divine Favor
9 Tactics (I like the +16 armor from my shield -.-)

Wish Swiftdeath · May 24, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cammy

woot lots of useful stuff here ^_^ Thanks you guys!!

Another question though XD

What runes/insignias do you use in order to have good attributes, decent energy, and still have 600+ health?

Right now I use:

All radiant insignias,
Rune of attunement,
Rune of Recovery,
Rune of minor divine favor,
Rune of Major Protection Prayers,
Rune of Superior Vigor

I have 525 Health and 40 Energy (without focus/+5 weapon)

14 Prot Prayers
11 Divine Favor
9 Tactics (I like the +16 armor from my shield -.-)

Take a minor prot rune, the -hp isnt worth +1 to prot imo.

For personal preference, i tend to not need the extra energy, i use radiant for head, hands and feet. Chest and legs have highest hit % so i usually put armour runes on there. Of course its completely up to you. The bar i've been using recently is

Divine Spirit
ZB
ROF
Mend Condition
Draw Conditions
Spirit Bond
Holy Veil/Deny Hexes
Frenzied Defence/Disciplined stance

Zui · May 24, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Unless you're trying to hit a specific breakpoint, and that breakpoint is actually important enough to sacrifice 35 or 75 health, do not use Major or Superior Attribute runes. Even if you think "Hey, that health isn't going to matter, I can get 1 extra point in Divine Favor if I use a Major Divine Favor rune!" you're going to be wrong. That minimal effeciency gain should never be game-breaking. 35 health on the other hand, can easily be game-breaking if you're playing people who are actually good.

Attunement runes are also not worth it. Having a high energy buffer for the times you need it can be nice. However, that's what weapon sets are for. Again, if Vitaes didn't exist, people might bring attunements. But they do, and people don't. Why? Because the odds of you winning a game because you have 10 more health and don't die are a whole lot greater than the odds of winning because you have 2 more maximum energy. In fact, I really don't think there has *ever* been a game where I could have said "Wow, if only I would have had 2 more maximum energy we would have won that game!" Nor have I ever heard of one. Not dying because you have more health can be game-breaking, even though it doesn't happen that often. Loosing a game because you don't have a high enough energy buffer just doesn't happen in actual play. If you're having trouble with energy managment, I'd really suggest either being more effecient with your skill usage(don't use RoF as a heal on a guy taking no damage, prot effeciently, don't overheal, etc.), learning to weapon swap better, getting a team build that can reduce some of the damage coming in(read: meleehate and versatile skills like knockdowns, interrupts, and mes shutdown), or getting team mates that kite, and even pre-kite too!

Again on runes, I'd drop that Recovery. Unless you're playing in Random Arenas, that is. In any kind of team arenas setting, if Dazed lasts on you long enough that you'd benefit from it ending early, you either need an off-monk condition removal, or you need a better team. (You can enter without off-monk removal if you have a very strong team, and still beat other teams that aren't entirely bad and have dazed, but it'll be much closer than it should be because you're purposely gimping yourself, usually for no good reason.)

I would strongly suggest always speccing for your shield if you can afford the secondary(genrally you're already purposely running a warrior stance, but even if you're running no secondary for some reason, and have enough points to spare for it, I reccomend it.). If anyone tells you you're stupid because you're speccing for a shield when you have nothing better to spec in, smack them.

Genrally, when I play Team Arenas(Ok, played would be the correct conjugation, since I've ragequit unless ANET gets their act together, which it won't, but whatever), I run this bar and the following attributes(this has been very effective in the current meta, as well as others):

1. Zealous Benediction (Protection Prayers)
2. Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
3. Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
4. Spirit Bond (Protection Prayers)
5. Holy Veil (Non-attributed)
6. Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
7. Purge Signet (Non-attributed)
8. Secondary Profession Skill (Defensive Stance, Glyph of Lesser Energy, or Natural Stride are all great picks here.)

12+1+1 Protection
X+1 Divine Favor (Basically, if what you're running requires spec, such as Defensive Stance for the breakpoint at 8 tactics, and obviously the shield at 9, drop Divine Favor down. If you want to run Natural Stride go with either 6 or 8 spec into Wilderness Survival)

I should probaly mention I run a Superior Vigor (Obviously), and two Vitaes. In addition to full Health Armor. Yes, it's alot of health. It's actually made a difference in a couple close matches in Team Areans though.

I would really reccomend having a 40/40 or 10/20 protection recharge set with that bar. You don't need to be on it all the time, but when your team is under alot of pressure, fast recharge on ZB wins games.

Cammy · May 24, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Wow I <3 Zui's posts lol

btw, how much energy should I have when using a shield? Right now I have 37 and I find myself occasionally running out of energy when under semi-intense pressure (shadow prison sin + interrupt ranger). Maybe it's just my energy management though T_T

Alexander Castle · May 24, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

If u use a shield for monking , bring a second weapon gear with a focus when u need energy

moko · May 24, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cammy

btw, how much energy should I have when using a shield? Right now I have 37 and I find myself occasionally running out of energy when under semi-intense pressure (shadow prison sin + interrupt ranger). Maybe it's just my energy management though T_T

25/35

Quote:

If u use a shield for monking , bring a second weapon gear with a focus when u need energy

orly?

Zui · May 24, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

You should end up with:

25 energy on your -5e weapon and shield set
35 energy on your +5e weapon and shield set
42 energy on your 10% HSR(Halves Spell Recharge) weapon and 20% HSR Prot focus (Note: You can also swap out the 10% HSR weapon for a 20% HSR prot wand if you so choose.)
47 energy on your +5e weapon and focus (with whatever bonuses) set
72 energy on your +15e -1 energy regen wand and +15e -1 energy regen focus set

As you probably noticed, there are 5 possible weapon sets up there. Genrally, for the build I gave you, you'll run the first three listed, in addition to the last one listed. However, I should probably mention that I have my "X" key bound to the same function as my "I" key (toggle inventory), so that it's really easy to open my inventory mid-match change whatever I need, and close it. I also have my inventory organized, so I know where everything is. Genrally, you can get by in most matches without having to micro anything. However, for difficult matches being able to switch the +armor type on your shield, or changing around the weapons you have out for maximum effeciency can really make a difference. If you're going to try this, I would practice it in matches that you pretty much know you're going to win, or practice it in Random Arenas. Until it becomes second-nature, you probably don't want to be in a hard match and spend 6 seconds staring at your inventory (and thus unaware of what's happening in the game) to find the shield/weapon you want.

Anyway, back on track.

Genrally you're going want to sit in the second weapon set on my list when you're being attacked. Your low energy set(set #1) is mostly used for when you want to have less maximum energy. Such as you're under energy-denial, or are going to use Purge Signet. You'll want to be on the third set I listed when you either need more energy(aside from when you're under energy denial, obviously!), or are under heavy pressure. Those two things are one and the same most of the time. You only switch to your high set(set #5) when you have no energy on any other weapon set, and you should only stay on it just as long as you need to cast, and then swap back to another set(genrally one with a shield). This is because your energy regen is halved while on this set, which is pretty major.

As for running out of energy, just keep working on being more effecient. Try to hit as many ZB triggers as you can, try to make sure your use of Reversal is as effecient as possible, know when Spirit Bond will actually save you energy, or will not be worth it, and so on. Just keep trying to improve, and you will.

Dallcingi · May 28, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Wow Zui this is very helpful, even for an okay monk like me that knows how things go along. I was kinda looking for the energy and health count and armor specs and I couldnt find them anywhere.. You rock!

Queto · May 28, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I was just wondering what shield I should use. I had a Chumab's Pride on my war (+30hp, +10 armor vs blunt) and I'm using that atm, but I'm thinking that the +10 blunt armor should be replaced with something else.

moko · May 28, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

well, looking at TA atm i would say:

..you basically need all elemental mods and the normal weapon ones also. Blunt, Piercing, Slashing, Fire, Earth, Ice, Lightning.

Conjure Flame is around, Earth because there's some teams using an Ebon Dust Aura (which can also pressure you if there's a lack of melees on your team), Air for the random Air spikers around, but also Rit Spikes, and Ice for well..i suppose that's the only one you don't need to have atm now that i think of it. Conjure Frost isn't really used much and water eles (if used) aren't for damage..so yearrrr.

Cripslash are kinda popular, same with Dervs, Assassins still appear in masses and some still love good old thumpers or just Hammer wars, so you really need all of it (try selecting your shields before engaging if you have the time).

hell, you could even run a while enchanted or while in a stance shield (if you are using a stance or good enchant that is) with -2 if you are being stomped by multiple damage types.

Cammy · Jun 01, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Zui, do you mousewalk or use wasd?

Also, can anyone train me? I've found a short session with a real person is essentially the same as poring over forums for 3 weeks. My guild is mainly pve/ab so I'm pretty much stuck in RA. It works, but it takes such a long time T_T

romanu · Jun 04, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Every good monk mousewalks

Zui · Jun 04, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Actually, I use a combination of mouse and keyboard movement. Before I go in depth, I want to point out that how you do things in regard to control setup doesn't matter much, as long as you're comfortable with your control setup that is. The only time your control setup actually matters is if because of inefficiencies or deficiencies in your layout, you can't do somthing you need, or want to do.

I use my mouse to move when I want to pre-kite a foe, dodge an incoming projectile, and also to kite (with some exceptions on the last one). The reason for this is with mouse movement, when you click on a location, you're instantly moving directly to the location you clicked at 100% speed. Since that's exactly what you want when you're pre-kiting a foe, or dodging a projectile, there's really no reason not to use it.

I use the keyboard (WQSE) to move in between casting spells, when no one is hitting on me, and my movement is mostly to stay in the postition I want to be in as a Monk. The reason for this is because, I can maintain constant movement easily with the keyboard, and I'm free to use my mouse for more important things, like selecting people.

I will use the keyboard in some kiting situations, like when I'm already running away at full speed, and don't want to take nasty auto-crits (which you take when hit square in the back), in which case I may use my keyboard. It should be noted that you can mimic the function of the A and D keys (assuming you have them bound to other things, like I do in my control setup...) using a WQSE movement by using your right mouse button, which as you know manipulates the camera angle.

If you're interested in the interphase I use, I know I've posted about it a few times in the past (in fact, I seem to remember a Monk interphase thread some time ago that alot of people posted in). Look for those threads, and if you can't find anything, let me know and I'll post about mine again.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 04, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Zui, for selecting people you should try my setup, which is basically all mouse movement with qwerasdf as skills and 12345rft as 1-8 party members. I switched to it recently, and I haven't really played enough (read: at all) so I'm not even that use to it, but it really does seem sweet in theory.

elektra_lucia · Jun 04, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I like my keys to strafe =/.

ideologue · Jun 05, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

all mouse movement with qwerasdf as skills and 12345rft as 1-8 party members.

im sure you meant 12345tgv for 1-8 party members.

there is another setup: 1234 qwer for 1-8 skills, asdf zxcv for 1-8 party members (I heard that Soul Wedding uses this setup)